Podcast

Reena Merchant:

You're listening to The OurVoice Podcast, and this is your host, Reena Merchant. Being your authentic self, it sometimes feels so much easier said than done, but what if it doesn't have to be that hard? OurVoice is committed to helping each and every one of us find ourselves and be ourselves. On this podcast, I have conversations with people who are inspiring me on my personal journey to authenticity. My journey within and without, and I hope that these conversations will be helpful to you too. So, let's get started.

Reena Merchant:

Meeting other people and forming connections with others is such a universal experience. Every day, each and every one of us seeks to build friendships and connections of all kinds with other people. Building our own personal community is an important part of life. Today's guest is Kat Vellos. Kat is an esteemed UX designer, speaker and author. Her own personal journey has inspired her to take a research-based approach to deeply understanding the topic of connection. She is an author of two books, We Should Get Together and Connected From Afar. And she's deeply committed to helping people around the world experience greater health and well-being through cultivating authentic and fulfilling connections.

Reena Merchant:

In this episode, Kat and I discuss the importance of connection, how to build strong and authentic relationships with others. And we discuss hands-on solutions and strategies that you can apply in your life. We cover everything from how to navigate small talk, how to overcome shyness and fear. And also the tougher stuff. Like how to set boundaries, honor your own needs, and how to handle things when connections end. I hope you enjoy my conversation with Kat Vellos.

Reena Merchant:

I am really excited to have Kat Vellos on the show today. Kat, how are you? Thank you for being here with us.

Kat Vellos:

Thank you so much, Reena. I'm so excited to be here on the show with you today. And I am feeling grounded this morning.

Reena Merchant:

I am too. So I'm excited to see the energy exchange in this conversation since we're both in a grounded place. So that is wonderful. You have such an interesting background Kat. I have been following your work, you are a very well-respected designer in the industry and you're also an author and I have been drawn to your books as well on the topic of connection. And I just wanted to chat with you ever since I first became aware of all of your work. Could you tell us a little bit about your professional background? What has led you to this interesting place at the intersection of all of these things?

Kat Vellos:

Yeah, thank you. My background as a designer, I got my degree in graphic design. And I spent a few years doing editorial art directing and graphic design for a weekly magazine. And then I wanted to feel like I was actually having a bigger impact on the world. And so I left that job after a few years to spend some time actually in service to community. And then did a couple of years with AmeriCorps and then I did some work with nonprofits. And I was facilitating a lot of designed experiences, IRL experiences for people to come in and with a blend of creative expression, leadership development, empowerment work, really helping people step into greater power in their lives and in their communities.

Kat Vellos:

And as a facilitator and designer of those programs, it was a really powerful part of my journey. And I got to experience designing for interaction in the real space between human beings, which is different than how we normally think about digital design where it's always human to computer interaction. But then when I moved to the Bay Area, six years ago, I wanted to go back to doing some kind of blend of the kinds of design I had done before. And so I got into user experience design, and I've been doing that here for the last six years. And it really is this blend of both the digital world, the things that humans interact with and also thinking about the process that they're going to experience and what's the intention behind that and what is the goal and how to make them successful.

Kat Vellos:

And then in the midst of all of this, I was also having this journey as a new person in the Bay Area who was starting from scratch, meeting people, trying to make community. And I had a difficult time honestly establishing a regular friend group, when I got here, it took me a couple of years to really nail down what my friends were cool and community was going to look like. And I found a lot of other people who were feeling exactly the same way. And I was like, "This is strange. We're all friendly, lovely people. It shouldn't be hard to establish friendships."

Kat Vellos:

And that's when I got fascinated with the topic of friendship and connection and ended up researching for many years and doing a lot of qualitative interviews and putting together the first book, We Should Get Together, which is that blend of looking at the biggest struggles adults face when forming friendship in adulthood and then what are the solutions and strategies that they can employ to help them be more successful with that, which is like user experience design. It's like figuring out what someone's trying to do and helping them be successful with that. So that's the blend of it all.

Reena Merchant:

Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for sharing. It's so fascinating to hear about how it all unfolded for you and what your journey has been. I have been reading We Should Get Together and I know you have the other book as well, Connected From Afar. They're both incredible. Could you tell us a little bit more about them?

Kat Vellos:

Sure. So We Should Get Together: The Secret to Cultivating Better Friendships, is this exploration of the four biggest challenges that adults face when they're trying to make friends and community as an adult. And as I mentioned before, it looks at what are the factors that play into that. Those four big challenges, by the way, were hypermobility, busyness, the demands of relationships and family, and then establishing intimacy was the fourth. And so it looks at each of those and the factors that play into them and then a lot of guidance and strategy and coaching around how to overcome those challenges.

Kat Vellos:

And it also breaks down information about the loneliness epidemic, and what I deem platonic longing, which is not exactly loneliness, but it's a very specific ache for friendship, that may be present in someone's life, even when they don't feel lonely because they have a partner or they have a family or they have workmates that they know. So you may not feel isolated or lonely. But there's this platonic longing. And so yeah, so We Should Get Together looks at all of that and it's all around helping people better understand what their experience of friendship is, isolating what the challenges are that they're facing, and then having action plans for how to approach them. And even though it's called We Should Get Together a lot of the same guidance in there can be done from a distance, because right now, of course, we're in a pandemic, and you got to get together online, or from six to 10 feet away.

Kat Vellos:

And with that, I put out the addendum, Connected From Afar this spring, because a lot of folks in my reader community were saying, "Kat, do you have anything specific that I can do, to nurture my friendships when I can't meet up with people?" And I said, "Absolutely." The first book really focuses on those in-person relationships. And so Connected From Afar is literally six months of weekly connection prompts that you can do with a friend from a distance to nurture either a long distance friendship or relationship, or in your own town, somebody might feel a long distance because they live two miles away, and you can't see them for a while.

Kat Vellos:

And so that one is actually more like a activity book or a playbook for things, you can just open up and start doing right away, whereas We Should Get Together has all of the background and research and it's more meaty chapters, whereas the Connected From Afar you just dive in and start going.

Reena Merchant:

Yeah, they go so well together. And it's been so supportive for me too, as you said right now, during this time, of course, connection is even more important than always, and just, it poses interesting challenges in the context of today. But I just look back at my whole life, and just the connections that I've formed or tried to form or have been longing to form along my life path and journey and just the interesting challenges I've had or things I've stumbled through along the way. And so the book has been really helpful. I was interested in hearing your thoughts around the importance of connection because we know it is such a big part of life. So much of life is about connecting with others. Why is it important in all our different contexts?

Kat Vellos:

There are so many reasons why. Connection, when you have a great friendship and someone you really bond with and that you feel really at home with, it feels great. So we all know that. So just on the surface, it's a mood elevator, it's also been shown to lift anxiety and depression. So we know on the surface, intuitively, that friendship just feels good.

Kat Vellos:

But the other thing that's really important for that is that connection is built into our human existence. And it's a part of how we survive. It's a part of how we've survived for, eons of cooperative, collective, communal living and surviving and being there to face the challenges of being alive. And it does so many things for your health as well. People who have really strong friends and social support in their life over decades have been shown to have lowered risk for dementia, Alzheimer's, they have better brains and healthier brains as they go along with it can reduce the fight or flight impulse in our brains. And also calm that nervous system. So it's doing all of this beautiful chemical release in the brain to keep us calm, to keep our stress levels lower. And when we have lower stress, there's again, another cascade of benefits from that. One being a lowered risk for cardiovascular disease, a lowered risk for stroke, a lowered risk for stress and inflammation in the body. And so there's all of these benefits for the mind, for the heart, for the body, that come from having healthy friendships.

Reena Merchant:

That is amazing. I didn't know about all the biological or physical impacts of this too. So that's really, really interesting to hear. And would you say, Kat that it's similar and that that applies across we have different connections in our lives, we have friendships, we have family members, co-workers or romantic relationships. Do you see any differences as you think about connection across those contexts?

Kat Vellos:

I do, because each of these is important in their own way. But the lovely thing about friends is that they can be present in your life, even if the other categories are absent. So somebody may not have family members anymore, somebody may not have a romantic relationship or may not want one. But friendship is accessible, really, for everybody. And so the benefits of that are accessible for anybody. And everybody gets those same exact benefits when they have that strong social support in their life.

Reena Merchant:

Yeah, that makes so much sense. Thank you. One thing that I've been trying to navigate my whole life is I feel like I'm this interesting hybrid extrovert, but also introvert, so I enjoy connection, and I crave connection so much. But then I also crave the inner connection. And I think a lot about the quantity of connections I have in my life. And it's varied across time. But I think about quantity and then quality or depth of connection. And I know you talk about quality and quantity in your book as well. So I was really curious to hear your thoughts on that.

Kat Vellos:

Yeah. It's more important to focus on the quality rather than the quantity. Most of us have already met hundreds of people in our lives and that doesn't always necessarily mean that we have access to that shortlist of people you would call in a crisis, or that you would call in an emergency, or even that you would call just to celebrate, if you had a wonderful stroke of good luck. So focusing on the quality of those connections and having that safety net is really the most important thing. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to run out and meet a whole bunch of new people if you want to improve your friend life. It often means taking a look at the people who are already in your life, whether they're friends or really interesting acquaintances, and inviting them into a closer relationship with you, a closer friendship with you.

Kat Vellos:

Often you have to use the word friendship specifically, because in our culture, when you say relationship, people will often think that means romantic relationships. So be clear that you're talking platonic and make that invitation. In the first section of the book, where I talk about the seeds of connection, one of the most important things that's in there talks about reciprocity and commitment. And when we feel like we don't have the quality of friendships that we want usually something is missing. And there's a whole long list of things you can look in there. But frequently, I find that people are either feeling a lack of reciprocity or a lack of commitment or a lack of frequency in how that friendship is maintained. And if you make that invitation and open up to someone and say, "Man, I really value you, here's what I appreciate about you. I would love to actually be in touch a little more frequently." Or, "Is it okay if sometimes we talk about some deeper things that are on my heart?" People are often very willing to say yes.

Reena Merchant:

Yeah, that's such a good point. And on the topic of reciprocity, and I love that you framed it as an invitation because that makes so much sense. And that feels so accessible. I was also wondering that what if somebody doesn't accept that invitation or it's not in their comfort zone to accept it and I'm looking at my own life and I do have some of these deeper, more quality connections with people and then there are people in my life where it's just not as deep. And do you think that there is still value in maintaining those connections that maybe just don't ever get as deep?

Kat Vellos:

It really depends on what you need in your life and what you're looking for and if you have some way to get those emotional needs met elsewhere in your life too. So an example of this, that I think I share in the book is, there was a few years back, from my own life, I realized that I wanted these deeper connections. And one of the things I did in making that invitation was to tell a small group of people that I knew here, I said, "I really love being friends with you. I would love to spend more time with you this year," I sent it to them in January, around New Year's and I said, "This year, I want to make a commitment to deepening my friendships. If you want to do that with me too, here's what that could look like. Here's what I'm open for. Here's what I welcome. Tell me what would work for you. Do you want to see each other more? Do you want to see each other less?"

Kat Vellos:

And it was really just a way to get clarity. Because a lot of times we make assumptions that people maybe they don't want to see us more or maybe they do want to see us more. And we're wrong with the assumptions we make. So asking a really clear question is important for that.

Kat Vellos:

I had one friend who was like, "Yes, I'm totally down. I want to see you more and so excited about this." And another friend, who was like, "I think this is cool. And I actually think the frequency that we see each other is enough, I actually don't have bandwidth for more." And I was like, "Okay, that's totally fine too." She didn't have capacity to meet me where I was trying to go. And other folks were saying yes. And so that's fine, put your attention on the plants that grow. And so it's okay, it doesn't mean that I'm mad at that other friend or anything like that. But what I got in that question was clarity. And I appreciate her courage and openness with telling me where she was at. That kind of conversation can really be motivating, because it helps you understand where to put your energy, and it helps you understand where you are with people. Again, no hard feelings, there's no right or wrong answer, but it's really just about getting clarity, and having that sense of mutual enthusiasm for where this journey can possibly go.

Reena Merchant:

I love how you framed it. And it just there's a deep intention in the way you just framed how we can ask the questions and really be intentional around, well, where do we want this connection or this friendship or this relationship to go? And so that's really beautiful. I don't think I've ever been as intentional as you just described. And I think that's really inspiring for me. So thank you for sharing that.

Kat Vellos:

Thank you.

Reena Merchant:

Yeah. I wanted to dig even deeper into this topic of authenticity and authentic connections with you. When I think about authenticity, I always have thought about it as a congruence between what's inside of me and what's outside of me. And so knowing who I am on the inside, and then how does that manifest externally and a big part of that external manifestation is connection with others. So I was curious to hear your thoughts on that, how do you think about authentic connections? And just, yeah, what your perspective is on that topic.

Kat Vellos:

I love the way you frame that as congruence. A word that I use a lot when I describe this has to do with alignment. We say - are we aligned. It's like am I aligned with myself when I'm with this person? Do I feel centered? Do I feel grounded? Do I feel like I can be lifted up or I can show up in bigger ways? And I can show up in really vulnerable or, I don't want to say weak ways, but can I show my weaknesses as well? Authenticity to me, means that all full expressions of who a person is, is welcome in that space and can feel supported in that space. And that there is a alignment in that relationship so that both people or as many people as are sharing, it can all feel that sense of support and alignment, and welcome. That all of who they are, is welcome no matter what their mood or situation may be.

Reena Merchant:

That's really interesting Kat. How do you get to a place of that I imagine there's a need for a feeling of safety for both people to be aligned in that way and to feel fully welcome. And for us to feel safe enough to share everything about us and our weaknesses too. How can we get to that point of safety in our connections with people?

Kat Vellos:

This is such an important one and it's one of the things that I think frequently holds people back. In the fourth section in the book where I talk about getting better at getting closer, that's a real thing. And it takes attention and intention to create that space that feels safe so that other people can get closer to us. And it also takes courage and vulnerability on our own part to open up so that we can then be seen and heard and known by the other person in a deeper way.

Kat Vellos:

One of the things that you can do to do that is, practicing curiosity is one. So I describe how through asking really thoughtful questions and follow up questions and remembering details and following up with people, those better questions really help knit a closer connection, a tighter bond between you. And so that's one thing that you can practice.

Kat Vellos:

Another thing I recommend is taking a look at a frequent challenge that comes up for folks, which is awkwardness. They're afraid of feeling awkward, they're afraid of a conversation getting awkward. And in that section with some guidance from a therapist I interviewed, we look at actually looking underneath the awkwardness to see what is the fear that you have there? What is the real emotion that you have there? And so by getting more in tune with what your emotions are, and putting the word awkward aside, but really identifying with specificity, is it a fear of rejection? Is it surprise? Is it feeling discomfort? Is it not knowing what to say? There's so much specificity and you can get better at solving that problem if you can name it, rather than just categorizing it as awkward and then never fixing it.

Reena Merchant:

Yeah.

Kat Vellos:

And then the last thing I would add there is to... I talk about vulnerability and Brené Brown talks a lot about this as well and I reference her in here, where vulnerability doesn't just magically show up to the party on its own, it's really up to us to dial it up. And that is one of the things that creates trust and that creates closeness. So by leveling up in steps, between the things that you talk about and the things that you ask about, and the ways that you show up, with each risk that you take to reveal something that maybe you feel embarrassed about, or that you feel unsure about, you're making it possible for the other person to treat that expression with love and kindness. And when they do that builds trust, and then you can offer that back to them. And then the next time, maybe you open up a little bit more. And so in that scaffolding, that is how we build trust. That is how we build that closeness, and ultimately create better intimacy in those friendships.

Reena Merchant:

That's so beautiful. I love the metaphor of scaffolding. It immediately, the visualization just came through for me when you said that. And I'm a huge fan of Brené Brown too. And so it's really interesting to hear your thoughts on how some of her work fits into all of this. I was wondering also Kat, when we think about who we are on the inside, and just going deep in our values and our identity, how does that also factor into that work, that inner work? How does that also factor into creating this safe welcoming space, this authentic space with others?

Kat Vellos:

Do you mean knowing what your personal values are?

Reena Merchant:

Yeah. I was wondering if that type of self-reflection can help. So knowing my personal values or what's important to me. I'm wondering if that going deep, going within could help me, for example, form deeper connections with others.

Kat Vellos:

Definitely. I think knowing yourself is the first step to getting better at friendships. Because if you cannot fully identify who you are as a person, what things you value, what things you cherish, what things you dream for in a friendship, it's going to be hard to seek that out. We all probably know the frustration of trying to make dinner when you don't know what you want to eat. It's like you're just wandering around the kitchen, opening and shutting cabinets, instead of compiling ingredients in some intentional way and putting a meal together.

Kat Vellos:

And so in a similar way, if you don't know what you're trying to create with friendships, if you don't know what you are hungry for, you're going to be wandering around that kitchen of community and just opening and shutting cabinets without ever actually having a meal. And so know what you are looking for, know what you cherish, know what you value, and know what kinds of things that you maybe want to see in your friends too. So an example from my own life I can share is that at one point in my life, I realized that I wanted more creative friends, more artsy friends. Friends who were in a regular creative practice that they did, it didn't have to be the same one as mine. But I wanted to have community with people who were makers and builders and doers and creators. Because it gives me momentum and it gives me life and it's exciting to share about our work with each other.

Kat Vellos:

And if you're sharing with people who aren't into that, and they don't really understand it, it's not always as it gives you as much energy. So I put the call out to some friends and our listeners like, "I want to have a monthly check-in group with other creators. Is anyone interested?" And it was a really fun experiment, we did it for like six months, it was great. But that clarity of somebody else can see that invitation and be like, "Yes, that is for me, I am that thing too. I want to share that experience," is really key when you're thinking of crafting an invitation. And also when you're just in your own heart getting clear with your intention of what you're seeking in friendship and in your world.

Reena Merchant:

Yeah, that's so great Kat. Thank you. And I imagine that, and you touched on this a little bit before too, that in finding, I guess, your tribe, or people that you can have that shared connection with or shared experiences with, I guess that honest communication has got to be important, I imagine because you have to probably communicate clearly back and forth, what is important to each of you, and then what you're looking to get from your relationships.

Kat Vellos:

Yeah, exactly.

Reena Merchant:

Yeah, that's really, really supportive. Thank you. I was thinking about some of the tougher stuff that comes with connection, and especially authentic, deep connections. And you mentioned awkwardness earlier in the conversation. And I was thinking a lot about this where sometimes there is that awkwardness or almost a fear or shyness sometimes that gets in the way of us being able to wholly and fully and completely open up with others. How do we get around that? Because I think so many of us deal with that.

Kat Vellos:

Yeah. A lot of people do. So if anyone's out there and feeling like that is their struggle, I just want to offer you some empathy to know that you're not alone. And that alone should hopefully make you feel a little bit calmer to know that other people frequently feel the same way. And so there's a sense of synchronicity that can happen when you open up about that, because then other people can offer some compassion, because they know how that feels. It's similar to when I'm looking at a talk or a speaker who's going to be giving a presentation, and they might step on stage and even though we're all supposed to just look so confident all the time, they say, "Man, I am really nervous right now." It's like in your heart, you just feel, oh. You just offer them some compassionate love, because you imagine you might feel nervous if you were in their shoes too.

Kat Vellos:

So opening up about it is pretty key to doing that. And saying if there's something you want to share with a friend that you do feel shy about, it is absolutely okay to preface that and say, "Reena, I want to share something with you. And I feel a little bit shy to tell you this." And then dah, dah, dah, I share the thing. But by sharing that emotion first, and letting you in on what's going on in my emotional world, and also demonstrating that even though I have this hurdle, which is my shyness or fear of rejection or whatever it might be, I still think it is worth it to tell you this thing I have to share because I'm invested in our friendship or our connection and so I'm reaching for that even beyond the challenge that I feel in the moment of that hesitation. So if we were friends, that would be something that I might lead with.

Kat Vellos:

And it really opens up the space for people, first to empathize with how you're feeling and to understand how you are and then to process that information that is shared within the lens of that emotional experience.

Reena Merchant:

Yeah, that makes so much sense. And it's so true, I think when we do open up space for people in that way. I mean, as humans, we've seen it. I mean, I think we want to step into that space. We all do, and in a loving, accepting way. So it's beautiful the way you described it, and I, yeah, I know I deal with sometimes shyness. I especially when I was younger, I was such a shy kid growing up. And so it's really helpful to hear you say that. And yeah, just how can we really open up that space as you said, for others to step into. Do you think that in your experience, have you seen that introverts versus extroverts handle things differently, or that this manifests differently for them? And I know it's a spectrum I also share, I'm somewhere in the middle, or I flip back and forth, depending on the day, but I was curious how you've seen that take shape.

Kat Vellos:

It is definitely a spectrum. And it sounds like you might be an ambivert, which is someone who's closer to the middle of that spectrum or goes back and forth. And it is definitely a thing. I'm an introvert, but I'm not shy. And there are introverts who are shy. I don't know if there are shy extroverts, there might be. But really knowing that how you show up is perfectly valid, whoever you are, however you are. There is not one right way to be. And that said, I have had a lot of introverts in my community come forward and tell me how much they appreciate some of the things that I propose.

Kat Vellos:

So one of them is a better than small talk activity. For introverts like me, we generally don't like small talk. I feel pretty confident speaking for introverts here to say we're not into small talk. And speaking for myself, the reason why is because being social, whether we're on Zoom or in-person, or what it might be, is an expensive energy. It's like there's this bank of energy for the day. And any social activity is going to draw down that bank. As an introvert, I really recharge on my own and process alone.

Kat Vellos:

And so when I'm going to expend that energy, I want it to be really worth it. If I was super extroverted, and being social actually gives me tons and tons of energy and I don't feel tired afterwards. I feel I drink a pot of coffee then small talk is just a part of the fun. It's like more fuel in the tank. But as an introvert, it actually draws down that gas tank. And so a lot of entrepreneurs have told me that being able to get past small talk more quickly, and get into a more heart centered conversation, or even just something a little more interesting than where are you from, what do you do? The news helps them feel more connected and it makes that expensive energy more gentle and less draining.

Reena Merchant:

Yes. That makes so much sense. The gas tank, expensive energy metaphor used completely resonates with me. I struggle a lot with small talk too. And it just feels so much easier to just go to that deeper place. But one thing I worry about is, I know that that works well for me. And that's my comfortable space. But if I do start going deep with others, could it come across as creepy or could it scare away other people?

Kat Vellos:

If you do this the wrong way, it absolutely can come across as creepy. So an example of that would be meeting somebody new and telling them your deepest, darkest secret right away. I don't recommend doing that. That will probably make them want to run away. And so as for when we talked about scaffolding, that is also something that we need to practice and how we get deeper with other people. And to say that there are literally hundreds, if not thousands of alternatives to the typical small talk questions that do feel accessible, and not creepy and not scary, but actually just invite a bit of sharing that is more meaningful, more interesting, more playful and all of these things are very, very enjoyable.

Kat Vellos:

And so I'll give you some examples of a question that you might ask somebody that you're getting to know, that you don't want to come across as creepy, you don't want to scare them away. But you also don't want to talk anymore about the town you grew up in, or where you went to school, because you've already talked about that 10,000 times in your life. So an example that I really like is to share stories from your life or that could be from your recent life, or from the rest of your life that helps you get a sense of who this person is. So one that's pretty fun is to ask someone, what are three songs you loved as a teenager? As a pretty light question. It's pretty fun to reflect and reminisce about the songs you loved when you were in high school. And it tells you something about who that person was as they were growing up.

Kat Vellos:

Another question I really like is, what's something nice you did for yourself lately? Or something nice you're planning to do for yourself over the next week? Again, that's more in the present moment, helping you understand what is something this person values, and if they're not planning on doing something nice for themselves, or they haven't had a chance, it just invites that permission to say, you can do a nice thing for yourself, whether it's taking a nap, or making yourself a smoothie or something really big like redoing your website or something. It invites that sense of personal sharing that lets you know how someone cares for themselves and says it's okay to care for yourself.

Kat Vellos:

Another question that I really like is, if you could pick any two people to have as neighbors next door neighbors, who would you pick? Because again, they can choose their level of vulnerability, but they also get to share something with you about maybe two people that they care about or that they love, who live far away that they really wish was closer, right next door. So hopefully these questions don't come across as creepy, do you think so?

Reena Merchant:

No, not at all. Thank you. I have been taking notes profusely. Because it's like what not to do versus this is how to do it. So it's beautiful. This isn't the standard small talk, the questions that we've answered a million times in our lives. If you asked me that it would get me thinking and it get me really excited to go deeper into that conversation with you. So that's so helpful.

Kat Vellos:

You're welcome. All 350 plus of these better than small talk questions are in the appendix, of We Should Get Together. And I used to do events IRL, in person using these. And now that we are far apart, I encourage people to try them and to add them whether it's to your team meeting with your staff, or to a conversation with your friend or family member. It's like switch it up. Ask something else. You might learn something new about someone you've known for decades.

Reena Merchant:

Yeah. It's such a great idea. Using it in a team meeting is such a great idea. We have a team, virtual off-site coming up. But we're always looking for ways to deepen our connections in a, again, non creepy way. So this is great. I definitely reference those questions. And I'll let you know how it goes.

Kat Vellos:

Please do I would love to know how it goes.

Reena Merchant:

Yeah. One other question I had Kat, as I was thinking about, there's obviously this shyness, awkwardness factor that can sometimes or fear that can get in the way of forming authentic connections with others. And I was thinking about, well, what else can get in the way? Sometimes we think about, well, forming deep connections with others is a huge time investment. And I don't have time because I'm busy, or I'm far away from someone. And I was thinking about all these things that sometimes we feel get in the way of forming authentic connections, what are your thoughts on that?

Kat Vellos:

Definitely feeling busy is one of the things that gets in the way. And people sometimes making a mistaken assumption that it takes a lot of time, like you have to put hours every single day into this to deepen a connection. And honestly, most adults are too busy for that. So what I really recommend there is making a habit. And it can be as small or as large as fits into your life of reaching out and nurturing those connections. So I'll give two examples. One is, with one of my super close, super best friends, he is super busy, he lives on the East Coast, so we've got a timezone difference, an availability difference. But one of the commitments that we made is that we check in with each other every weekend. We've been friends for years, and most of the time haven't lived in the same state.

Kat Vellos:

He's someone I value, and I want to be friends with him forever. And so even when we're really busy, we made a decision that every weekend, either on Saturday or Sunday, we'll reach out to the other person to see if they can talk or to let them know that we're thinking of them or to hear what's up. And some weekends we only have five minutes, and we talk but it's so good to hear his voice and to hear how he's doing, and maybe to share a laugh. And other days, that five minutes turns into an hour and a half. And suddenly, wow, I've organized the closet and did the dishes. But we've had this hour and a half conversation. So I didn't have to stop doing the things in my life that mattered while we were sharing. It's just like he was sharing it with me.

Kat Vellos:

And conversely, on the other end, if you want to make a bigger commitment to nurturing your friendships and improving them, one thing I've started doing is hosting a connection club for people who want to improve their friendships in a really sweet analog way. So all of our life right now feels like it's on the computer, it's digital, we're constantly texting and emailing and doing video calls. And at Connection Club, which I host on Mondays and Fridays, it's a time to sit down for 30 minutes and write a letter to a friend. It's personal, it's intimate, it's just like you are giving them your attention for a set of time and expressing to them on a sheet of paper very... Or maybe you make them a little piece of art. It's a very analog, quiet, still way of connecting with someone. And when you send that off to them, they receive it in this way that doesn't feel like an intrusion in the busyness of their life, but it's actually a gift that you have sent to them.

Kat Vellos:

And then after that we have 30 minutes of connection for people who want to make more friends or build a community, everyone in the community is lovely. And so it's a chance to, if you're feeling lonely or isolated to also have that ritual of saying once a week or twice a week, I know I'm going to get 30 minutes of good conversation with kind people. And so by making a commitment like that, it's almost like going to the gym. It's like I'm going to do this every week, and make this a ritual in my life. So again, whether you do the five minutes or whether you do 30 minutes or an hour a week, it's still making a habit out of it and when you make it a habit, it doesn't feel like work anymore. It feels like the thing that is part of your self care. And it's part of your nurturing of your connections as well.

Reena Merchant:

Yeah, that's beautiful. Yeah, a self-care ritual. And I'm so glad you shared about the Connection Club, I wanted to ask you about it because I've been following that online. The format sounds absolutely beautiful. And there's something about analog communication that's really magical and just the act, as you said, of taking aside regular time to create that analog communication that you're going to send to your loved ones, that sounds healing. So it's really wonderful. I would love to try that sometime and maybe join in.

Kat Vellos:

You are welcome anytime. You can sign up at my website, weshouldgettogether.com.

Reena Merchant:

Perfect. Thank you so much. I was also thinking Kat about, as we talk about all these things, that sometimes are the tougher aspects of authentic connection, also this aspect of boundaries and space. And how do you maintain that balance energetically between yourself and that connection with others? I know, sometimes I struggle with it because I crave both. I want to have that connection with others, and then I want to have that just time with myself. How do you strike that right balance?

Kat Vellos:

I can hear that as an introvert. I enjoy that alone time and it is something that I also need to protect in order to still have the energetic resource to give to other people. And so it's really important as before, we talked about knowing yourself, and knowing what your needs are, to understand that so you don't overextend yourself or over deplete yourself. So that's just about noticing where you're at, what you need, and how to take care of yourself so you can show up more fully in your friendships.

Kat Vellos:

And then beyond that, when you get into, say, boundaries work whether you want to ask someone to start doing something or stop doing something or meet you in that friendship in a different way, it really takes that courage and vulnerability. Hopefully there's some foundation of trust in that relationship that you can already start to go on. But even by reaching out and saying, "I'd like to make a request," or, "I'd like to ask for something to be different." Again that show of trust in saying, "I'm invested in this relationship, by making this request, I am hoping to improve our relationship," that is something that you can build on.

Kat Vellos:

And so having boundaries is key, it doesn't work if the only way to stay in a friendship is to put yourself under the bus, not have any needs, not ask for anything. That is not a healthy friendship. You need to be able to say what's working and not working. And if you have a request to express that, and to hopefully have it be met with kindness and compassion.

Kat Vellos:

And sometimes people don't meet us with kindness and compassion when we ask for something. In the book, We Should Get Together, I have a chapter in there that has to do with friend breakups. And there's a story from a woman I call Ella in the book, who had some pretty serious let downs from friends of hers. They said they were going to show up for her for some pretty big life experiences and they totally let her down. And she had that courage to say, "This doesn't mean the end of the friendship for me, I want to have a conversation about it to just process what happened and move forward."

Kat Vellos:

And she made that invitation and unfortunately, the people that she was talking to, did not have the emotional strength to do that. The emotional literacy or the emotional development to do that. And instead, they were like, "You've questioned my friendship, no way we're done." And they just ended the friendship rather than face the discomfort of having one conversation to just process what happened, talk about what worked and didn't work, and decide what can we do in the future so that we can show up better for each other?

Kat Vellos:

And it's pretty sad. And unfortunately I don't think her experience is isolated. Unfortunately, I think there are some dynamics in our culture nowadays, particularly around how quickly people just cancel somebody else, or put them in the trash. And I just think it's heartbreaking, honestly. Because healing is possible, particularly if there's been a valuable friendship in place for a while. It's like everybody messes up. If you mess up and let somebody down, own it, apologize, talk about it, and then decide how you can move forward together. It doesn't have to be the end. But that requires, again, someone saying, "I want to talk about this. Can we process this?" And if you are hearing those words, making that decision to say, "This friendship is valuable enough to me, that I'm willing to be uncomfortable in a conversation where we're both uncomfortable and figuring it out as we go to heal, to resolve it, and to decide how we can step forward."

Reena Merchant:

Yeah, I'm glad you touched on that Kat. Because sometimes, unfortunately connections do come to an end and it's a very, very, as you said, heartbreaking and sad process. And you're right, we do live in, there's cancel culture. We do live in this environment where sometimes we are quick to just push things aside. I was thinking a bit on the community level of this too, it would be so wonderful to hear your thoughts. How does the work that we do individually and the work that we do in forming these connections, these friendships as you described, how can that help us on a community or collective level? And as we think about our culture, and some of these things that we see in society, cancel culture, can it help us as a collective move in the right direction?

Kat Vellos:

Absolutely. I really believe that. I think that once we, as a society, begin to understand the value of each individual person, simply by nurturing our friendship with them, or seeing their humanity, that ripples outward. It's really hard to be kind and compassionate to a friend who may be struggling and then to turn to a stranger on the street and treat them like garbage. If our heart is open to another human being, and our friendship, I really hope and believe that, that makes our heart more open to other people who we may not know, who may be different from us, who may be in a completely different place. And to say you are a human, too, you have your own struggles too, how can we all exist peacefully together? That's ultimately what I want, is to create that healthier world. And I really think it starts one relationship at a time.

Reena Merchant:

Thank you. That is such an incredibly inspiring note to wrap up on and thank you for all the work that you're doing to help people, to help us on an individual level, but also to help make the world a better place. And I'm just wanting to ask you Kat, what's next for you? How do people stay in touch with you, you shared the Connection Club, is there any other resource or anything else that's coming up that you can guide us to?

Kat Vellos:

I absolutely invite people to join Connection Club. It's a grounding presence in the members' lives. They just tell me how much even when they feel like they don't have time for it, when they show up they're like, "Man, I left feeling so much better than when I came in." And it is helping them connect with the loved ones in their lives and feel less disconnected during this time of great physical distance. So I encourage you to join me, it's a sweet time of connection. And I also, if people have questions about friendship or struggle they're having with community, I also do Q&A and offer some mini coaching in those calls, if anybody wants to stay on for that.

Kat Vellos:

And other than that, I'm always doing different events and talks and things like that. So if they go to the events page on my website at weshouldgettogether.com, there's always something to jump into, or to put on your calendar, and I love to serve people to help. That's really what I'm here for. So reach out, I'm on Instagram @katvellos_author and on Twitter @KatVellos. And if there's something that you want to know, ask me a question, put it in your stories, I'd be happy to chat and reach out. Don't go it alone. By definition, our social health and well-being is not something we can improve all by ourselves. So you can improve maybe your physical health, if you're trying to eat healthy or exercise, you can exercise alone, but you can't really improve your social health alone. So reach out, talk to the people in your life, get support, whether it's from me or someone else and keep going. Because it's going to be good for you and for the people around you as well.

Reena Merchant:

Thank you so much Kat for offering your support. It is so true that we need that support on this journey. And thank you for making the time for this incredible conversation. I learned so much from speaking with you and it felt so healing and so inspiring. Thank you so much again for being on the show.

Kat Vellos:

Thank you, Reena.

Reena Merchant:

Connecting with authenticity and intention can feel really hard. But I'm hoping that today's episode helped to demystify it a bit. In speaking with Kat, I learned a lot about how to build strong quality connections and how to establish intimacy with others. Regardless of whether we are introverts, extroverts, or a little bit of both, like me, it's important to build aligned relationships with others where the people we are connecting with are meeting us where we want to go. Connections where we can feel safe to be vulnerable. And in speaking with Kat, it only reinforced to me that it's so important to understand ourselves within. Because ultimately, that helps us form stronger bonds with others. I hope you found the conversation as helpful as I did. And if you did, please give the podcast a rating and review us online. And please be sure to check out the show notes at iamourvoice.com for links and resources related to this episode. Keep finding yourself, keeping yourself and as always, I am sending you so much love.

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